Obviously, you might be wondering: If the recirculation pump loop is running continuously, youre probably expanding too much electricity just to get hot water faster. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads. my understanding of the Navien with internal recirc pump is that they work with either an external dedicated return pipe or an internal bypass loop located within the water heater cabinet. and our Solar panels, wiring, old TVs and sometimes DIY powerwalls. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages, but they do offer the luxury of having hot water almost instantaneously and they save you a lot of water. Shut off the appliance for half an hour and then restart. Plug n play (after removing front panel to access the plug). I used a razor and carefully pried each side of the RM11 open to reach the programming switch. Your Navien Recirculation Pump will make a humming noise like a refrigerator if you dont bleed the air out of the recirculation system. If the problem persists after reset, replace the APS as soon as possible. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman to fix the issue. When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. Here is a list of advantages associated with hot water circulating pumps: Now lets have a look at the disadvantages of these pumps: Needless to say, recirculation pumps are not free. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. For example, an open or shorted sensor causes this issue. Next, hook hoses to the valves, then open them to drain the water. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after youve turned it off for your safety. Our articles, products and services are for informational purposes. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. When you are installing water system stuff, a lot of things can cause low pressure. Consider yourself lucky if this installation hasn't damaged your circulating pump inside the unit. It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. if you do have an external recirc line BUT it was installed when the Navien , then see if you can find where the recirc line connects to the hot water line - maybe it's serving a portion of your fixtures and the other fixtures are not benefiting from the recirculation. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? (+ Calculator), 5 Best Air Purifiers For Allergies In 2023 (+ H13 Medical-Grade HEPA Filters), Is A Tankless Water Heater Worth It? Also, check the feeder valve and pressure relief valves activity. I have a clog, When the faucet is on the unit is indicating flow rate of 1.4 GPM which seems plenty and the recirculation mode is set to external & always on. The E760 informs you that its time to flush your heater. Though we share resources, information, and educational guide on plumbing & DIY projects, the content here is not a substitute for professional guidance. It is affordable and can easily fix your problem. Otherwise, this will cause the shut-off valve to get damaged. An open or short thermistor can be the root cause of this problem. here are some problems that you may have to deal with in the future or have experienced already primarily found in older Navien heater models; Though not a common occurrence, it is still essential to know how to identify these issues. Hello Frank, one of the disadvantages of recirculating pumps is that you have to wait for cold water a bit. This made me suspicious that water was coming from the mains. It means there is some issue with a water pressure sensor. Ensure you mount the pump securely. Get a sump pump and connect the cold service hose to the sump pump. To remedy this issue, turn off the heater for some time and restart it. This is done every time you close the faucet. Is there a recirculating pump for the tankless water heater known as Trutankless? The pump works on the existing pipes; it basically sends the leftover water back to the boiler or the heater. Make sure the electrical cord is grounded. To remedy the issue, consider increasing the gas supply to the heater. I got a Navien NPE 240A2 installed in my home with dedicated recirculating line (hopefully I got the lingo right!) $257.16. This depends on how long you leave it on and how often you use it. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. Hi Patrick, thats a good insight. But in my case its significant amount of time and it only really gets hot if I fully open the hot water at that faucet otherwise it is luke warm. It clips on the side of the PCB board without screws and then you connect a ribbon cable to the PCB. I have an NR240A for about 10 years now. It is important to note that recirculation pumps dont work continuously; they are used only when we open and close the faucet. There are more options, for example- you can buy a wifi socket. The recirculation pump is fixed on the water heater. Press either the Up and the Down button to switch between any of these recirculation settings: It does save you water but it also costs you a bit of electricity. The only problem you have is there is no check valves in place check valves or like stop signs that direct traffic check valves, direct to flow of water. Now, you have to know the hows for reducing damage. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Purchase and install a rocker switch or "doorbell" style buttons to activate the NRCR "on-demand" mode to prime the pump for use only when you want it. How? A family of 4 with normal water usage can expect to save $50-$75 a year. We were advised of this upon installation. Working well so far. I bought the remote PB you referenced above and the specs on it say it uses 12 VDC, but I couldn't find anywhere whether the 12 V supplied by the Navien board is either AC or DC. I bought the. Refer to the user manual to locate the Hot Button and then press it to activate hot water recirculation. This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. Set the pump in the bucket and plug it in. The pump saves this cold water and recirculates it in the hot water. Turn off the unit and check the valve's wiring and condition. To select a recirculation mode, you must set the DIP switches on the front panel, and set the position of the 2-way valve inside the water heater. Thanks! We have 6 Navien NR-210A manuals available for free PDF download: Service Manual, Operation & Installation Manual, Installation Manual, Owner's Operation Manual, Quick Installation Manual Navien NR-210A Service Manual (179 pages) NR/NP Series Tankless Gas Water Heater Brand: Navien | Category: Water Heater | Size: 21.79 MB Table of Contents Then what are we waiting for? There are two options when it comes to tankless heaters and recirculation pumps: If you have difficulty finding out which brand is the best for a tankless water heater with a recirculation pump, you should check the newest Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units. The large valves should be in the off position, whereas the service valves should be in the on place. T = the water cooling, normally 5 C determined at the farthest consumption point [C]. Thats why turning off your pump is important when youre not using it. Dont hesitate to switch the tees around if you get them backward. The average electric tankless water heater needs at least 120 amps to work. Continue reading below Our Video of the Day 1. Is the cable harness compatible? It provides information about the problem with the fan motor. Then, tighten up the cap again once you remove all the air from the loop. You must log in or register to reply here. It is a visible sign that your devices cold water inlet two thermistor is having some issues. For example, if you have a person showering and another individual shaving. Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump - YouTube 0:00 / 4:21 Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump RCGooner2002 240 subscribers Subscribe. We recommend to use caution and seek the advice of qualified professionals. You can also identify and fix them yourself. Make sure that the drain hose will empty the scaling solution into the bucket. The electric recirculation pump uses this other pipe to pump the hot water back into the boiler or water heater. Pump the white vinegar into the cold side, up through your water heater, and out the hot side. Step 1 Remove the plug from the socket on the end of the wire that connects to your circulator pump. . All you have to do is browse through our guides, answers and personal experience documentations to find out what you should (or shouldn't) do when going off the grid. Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. Think hot water loops returning to your boiler to get reheated (to stay hot) Think LOOPS!! Hi Mike, we think about water as hot vs. cold. Hi: If a hot water faucet is open, you can adjust the temperature only from 98-110 F (37-43 C). sounds like you need a different plumber to assess your situation. We can go from there with up to 3 hours of dedicated live coaching on the telephone if needed. if your water heater has 4 connections (CW in; HW out; condensate; gas) then the recirculation occurs within the water heater - IMO don't see the benefit in this setup as the water in the HW distribution system doesn't see flow . The heater turns off automatically when the flue pipe surpasses 149 degrees Fahrenheit. This is because the sensors are corroded over time which causes them to shut the heater down. FREE Returns . Like with most things, a lot of noise coming from your hot water recirculation pump isn't a good sign. last week. In his spare time, Oscar loves tinkering with electronics. Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valves direction. You can adjust the temperature while the display is flashing. Open the pressure relief valve. Then, you can change the tank thermistor if needed. I am contemplating getting the NPE-180A and controlling the pump with a remote control in each bathroom. Grundfos small circulators are perfect as hot water recirculation pumps for commercial and domestic hot water applications. The leading causes of the intermittent flame; You can fix these issues by maintaining and cleaning the heater. Manage Settings IF it does, could it be controlled remotely? All you have to know is how to turn it off. link to How to Connect a Generator to Your Tiny House Without a Transfer Switch, Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide, Insinkerator Hot Water Dispenser How-to & Troubleshooting Guide. If the issue persists, contact your original installer or an NSS to service the sensor. Great article!! If the problem persists, call a technician to fix the unit. https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-MOMONTROL-RM11-/350575987090?hash=item519ff50992, Navien NPE-240A2 External circulation question, Navien NPE-240A and HotButton - DIP switches and parameters, Flushing Navien 240A set up for external bypass, Navien NPE External Recirculation Confusion. You can tell because the cold supply line is connected to the circulating return. How do hot water recirculation pumps work to get hot water fast? Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? This serves two functions: You save water. There is a circulator pump, but it still takes a long time for hot water to reach the upstairs bathrooms. It can also damage your main water heater and can create recirculation problems. The pump will cost you $200 to install, $5.50-$32 to operate, will waste $160-$400 per year and will save you $4-$50 on your water bill. The cost of a separate recirculation pump would fall in the range of $200 and $500, depending on the size required. When I hooked hoses to the service pipes, the system still produced a strong, steady flow of water, seeming to not drain. It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. Start by turning off the service valves and removing the hoses. 30000466A Navien Circulation Pump NAPU9GLPCT33 . Do the plumbers explanations make any sense at all or does it sound like BS? However, some gas needs to be used to heat water for the pump to circulate; the gas usage for this is pretty much insignificant relative to how much gas we use when powering the instant hot water heater. Let the vinegar cycle through the cold side for 45 minutes. If you add a powerful hot water circulation pump at the heater (not under the sink), the hot water will reach the faucet much faster. Heres the thing: Both cold and hot water need to be supplied using the same pipe. Not really. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. While you may have a general understanding of the listed electrical issue above, you should not attempt to handle any electrical work unless you are a licensed electrician. Also you need not be concerned about pump damage. I connected the Hot Button control board to the main PCB per the instructions. However, the hot water had to travel from your water heater to the faucet for you to use. Our goal here at GridSub is to help you find viable solutions to different off-grid problems. It is propelled only by water pressure. That means that this household wasted 8 gallons of water per day just waiting for hot water. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. This number indicates that the water pressure is high. Hi. It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. He said he tied in both in the master bath and the kitchen but it seems if that were the case at a minimum they would have hot water quickly. 2. DC Wire Gauge Calculator: What Gauge Wire (12V, 24V, 48V)? Recirculation valve for use with NPE-A series tankless water heaters Designed for recirculation of domestic hot water in applications where a dedicated return line is not available. Turn off the device for 30 minutes and then restart it. It can take anywhere from 10 seconds to 1 minute for the hot water to reach the faucet. Bosch Tankless Water Heater Troubleshooting [A Complete Guide], Bosch Tankless Water Heater Error Codes [Ultimate Guide], Bosch Tankless Water Heater Wont Ignite [7 Easy Solutions]. But, yes, I understand why it seems feasible for the sediment to eventually enter the water flow and cause the change in taste of water. 2. We might be able to do something about it. Both of those spots are problematic though. In fact, however, the whole machinery of the hot water recirculating pump has to be activated for this to happen. Ensure that all hot water faucets are closed, and ensure that the internal circulator and any external circulating pumps are off. Hi Howy, well, the circulating pumps are usually powered by electricity, so they dont use gas. If you've got a tankless water heater installed that doesn't come with a built-in recirculation pump, then in such a scenario, a separate recirculation pump can do the trick for you. This requires the installation of an additional water pipe. Difficulties with estimation of epsilon-delta limit proof. Foreign materials like small pebbles may get into the recirculation pump. When the water is sufficiently hot, the temperature sensor will shut off the power to the recirculation pump to conserve energy. The water heater will retain your settings during a power outage. If you have come back from a vacation, first turn on the main water valve. The water heater is set to 120 F (49 C) by default. There is something wrong with limit control. You can set it to run in the morning before work, and in the evening. This gives you a negative return on investment (ROI), so. How To Fix Navien Tankless Water Heater Code E003? air), Latent Heat (BTU/hr) = 0.69 x CFM x gr. With the NRCR you can set your own schedule with a remote accessory and tailor the integrated pump to your lifestyle or scheduled needs. The error code E736 informs about the issue in cascade communication, and error code E740 indicates that the outdoor temperature sensor is not working correctly. JavaScript is disabled. It also may be as simple as a dip switch in the tankless unit itself. Calculator + Chart (Natural Gas), Average Gas Bill For 1-Bedroom Apartment: State-By-State Cost Analysis, Average Electricity Bill For 4 Person Household (Survey Analysis), How Many kWh Per Day Is Normal? Check the wiring and cold water inlet two thermistors and make sure both are in good condition. Disconnect the power supply to the water heater. I was under impression that with the recirculation pump this wouldnt be an issue (the wait time) and the fact that the water is just warm otherwise feels wrong. Recirculate temp in is 67, temp out when just recirculating is 67. A water recirculating pump is also similar to this. These are the 3 most often recommended brands for tankless water heaters with recirculation pumps. Check to see if the warranty is still valid and contact the manufacturer. Empties the water pipes so the next time youll need hot water fast, it will meet less resistance in the piping and it will arrive at the faucet in a matter of seconds. Turn off the device for half an hour and confirm everything is working correctly. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. First, open and close the pressure relief valve, which is located near the units outlet. Examine the wiring and thermistors condition. These on-demand units need an even longer time for the hot water to reach a faucet because the heater has to first heat the water and then send it along to the faucet. Sold by HVAC Pros and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. Thanks. Why isn't my Navien tankless water heater performing as it should? Error Code E438 It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. Some pumps, in order to avoid needing a dedicated return path, will recirculate the water via the cold water supply, so getting some hot water from the cold supply would be normal in this case. Use your pump when you want to use it. Here is the summary of all the negative aspects of hot water circulation pumps: This is the key question. Others run on a timer. To remedy this, you can take the two clamps off the sensor, pull it out and clean it. Allow it to dry and then fix it back. Also the unit needs to be set to utilize the recirculation feature. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman. Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. 3. Question: How much does it cost to buy a water recirculating pump? (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? . Most of information is available in the install manual but some of it requires a phone call to Navien support. Unplug the power to your Navien water heater. Its not exactly normal. You can turn off the recirculating pump in various ways. If required, replace the thermistor. Press J to jump to the feed. Watt recirculating pump installed on the water heater (pump plugged into standard 110/120V outlet, 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors, valve). Also, check the filters to see if they are clean. Connect a regular garden hose to the hot side service valve. So you'll find the same info whether you're looking for the Navien 240A manual, the Navien NPE-240S manual, Navien NPE-180A manual or similar. Crazy coincidence that I ran into your post because I've been researching the same issue. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. Also, did you wire the PB from the Hot Button kit or only use the remote? If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. This chapter will reveal all the possible culprits that cause the recirculation pump of your Navien to make a humming noise. Here are four problems with these pump systems that you should be aware of. Find products from Grundfos related to this subject. Overusing your recirculating pump also increases your electricity bill. This is known as recirculating home pump comfort system (Type #2) and its the most popular way to get hot water quickly. At the same time, someone is in the kitchen doing the dishes. Types of water circulation pumps, including tankless water heater recirculation pumps. You will see in the photo that the cold water valve shuts off water into the domestic water inlet but doesn't have a shut off into the circulation water inlet. Below, I will break down everything to stop the buzzing noise. We have to keep the valve on and slowly hot water comes out. I added an additional remote for a total of 3. Fits These Models Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Press the Power button on the front panel to turn on the water heater. Free returns are available for the shipping address you chose. To calculate the size of the heater, you will need to add up the amount of water required at a particular time. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. A place for plumbing advice and help. You just have to set the timer as you use it. Does It Save Money? Press the reset button to reset your device. The water heater will not provide hot water instantly. Then remove the cold water filter off located next to the cold water isolation valve. Air in the line: If there has been a power outage or air has gotten into the line for another reason, the pump can make a lot of noise. Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. Here are some simple instructions on how to turn on your Navien tankless water heater. If youre using this pump and cant fix it yourself, you can call a professional mechanic to fix it. The heating supply thermistor is defective. The circulation return needs to come from a loop at an end of the hot supply line. Press the Power button on the front panel to turn off the water heater. The process to take apart the fitting which holds the flow sensor to "blow" it out clean is arduous, requiring drainage of the system etc., and has not solved the problem. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. Also, check if the electrical cord is grounded correctly or not. - If there is not the fore mentioned set up he probably did the best he could do without re plumbing your house with double hot (returns to your Navien! The answer is that leftover water in the pipes has cooled over time. Purchasing a timer will also fix the problem. As well as any future additions, Usage of household gadgets that require hot water, Automatic dishwasher 14 gallons or 1.5 GPM, Washing machine 32 gallons to wash the clothes or 2 GPM. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? Because the recirculation pump ran with no water, the motor ended up burning out. So, get 2 braided ss flex connectors and install them on the inlet and the outlet of the pump. Because a water recirculating pump provides us instant hot water. If you fail to stop the noise after trying all the steps I mentioned, I bet there is a complex problem with the unit. The operations manuals above cover all Navien NPE-A and NPE-S series condensing tankless water heaters.